Lily: so, what in heavens do i do now?

Mooooooo: got questions?

KimNchair: whazza matta?

Lily: moooooo, there are none, judi didnt want any

Mooooooo: well

Mooooooo: i have a little experience in this

Lily: good

Mooooooo: as a child, i was forceably sent to a school for disabled kids

Mooooooo: anyone who was different was sent there

Lily: ok, lets start with schools then

Mooooooo: then, in 8th grade i went to public school

Lily: has log started yet?

Mooooooo: yes

Lily: k

Mooooooo: the difference was quite traumatic

Lily: how did they compare?

KimNchair: k my brother who was profoundly mr was mainstreamed be4 anyone knew what it did

Mooooooo: in the first school, we were coddles and expected to act like nice little morons

Mooooooo: in public school, we has to pass on our own merit

Lily: k:)

Angel_27: I was one of the first disabled people to go to a public school in my town

Lily: yes, true mooooo

WonderW: me too

Lily: what was your exp. like, angel?

KimNchair: we sposed to! ? toinite?

Angel_27: I did ok, had some teachers that didnt want to make acceptuions I needed

Lily: no, it oen discussion , kim

KimNchair: k

Lily: open

Lily: didn't want, or didnt have the resources, angel?

Mooooooo: the only exception i got was P.E.

Angel_27: I had one teacher oin 10th grade tell me I didnt belong in public school

Angel_27: only because I had to leave 10 min early to go to lunch room

Angel_27: it was too much trouble for them

Lily: o, ic

Lily: ive seen autistic kid pull down hall displays of grade ones work

KimNchair: i just happened to have several classes with david when i was freshman, our mama was special, we didn't really know david was different just knew if he got mad hide! ij school he was seizing, the teacher came runnin to me what do i do, i said just leave him the h alone

Lily: how should a teacher handle this?

Lily: so that it's a positive thing for the AB kid as well

KimNchair: shouldn't have acted like he was a leper maybe even shown some leadership when seizing you need cal and if possible som1 to talk you down

WonderW: my experience at a school for disabled kids was generally great for me, teacher's knew I was bright, they encouraged my interest in writing, etc....I was mainstreamed in 4th grade and was still in special ed for my dyscalculia (math learning disability) except that no one explained that that's what it was till much later, so I thought that, despite my verbal ability, I was stupid

Lily: how did the mainstreaming go?

Lily: yes, kim, but many teacher arent that bright

Lily: were you mainstreamed, anny?

KimNchair: i know lily but i was 13 yrs old:(

WonderW: it was generally ok, but not knowing I was learning disabled was devastating, and even harder because dyscalculia is often labeled math phobia

Lily: o, ic

anny1: yes was the only handicapped in small school lil

Mooooooo: same with me in California, anny

Lily: was it a good experience, anny?

KimNchair: laura you have that song on cd oh if they could see me now?

Lily: lol

Woz: daughter was ldg biggest prob was her self esteem and school shrink

WonderW: no, kim, but I agree

anny1: was ok in terms of learning, socially not to hot

Lily: bet?

Lily: beat?

Woz: beat open discussion no ! or ?

WonderW: I had a teacher tell me that I'd never be a writer (all I ever wanted to do was read and write, and she knew it) and that crushed me

Lily: judi is not well, so we are having an open discussion

WonderW: I was only 10

Kark: I started regular school at 1st grade

Lily: why, laura, what math got to do with it?

KimNchair: she was plain stupid

BEat: Out here they are just starting main streaming , But I feel we learnt more in a non main stream school

WonderW: what does math have to do with what?

Woz: dyslexia

Lily: are some dis. more easily integrated than others?

Lily: with the ability to write, laura

BEat: We where able to cope with our work far better

Lily: o, netdsplit

WonderW: dyscalculia and dyslexia are totally different learning disabilities, max

KimNchair: i think justin would have gotten more from school if he could have been not mainstreamed, really easy for school teachers and even me to think nothing wrong with him just mean and bad

Woz: lily math and spelling are keys to learning dis

WonderW: nothing, she was just pissed off because I couldn't master haiku

KimNchair: his daddy was gonna beat it out of him:(

Woz: thay tend to be the hardest

KimNchair: haiku??

WonderW: and hold pen well

Lily: so, does placement depend upon the individual, and parents shd be involved?

Lily: lol, nobody masters haiku

Woz: parents must be involved

BEat: the classes where smaller

Woz: ma did some home tutoring

BEat: I think it should involed both

WonderW: haiku : form of poetry with 5 syllables in first line, 7 in second, and five in third

Lily: yes, i agree

KimNchair: most def parents should be and i our state the parent can insist they be involved and with idea much more is offered for a child w dis

Lily: i see it from the teachers perspective too

WonderW: parents have to be involved

KimNchair: abnd couldn't master that in 2nd grade what shame:)

Woz: ditto

WonderW: lol, kim

Lily: most arent trained in spec. ed., and dont have resources to handle

Lily: lol, kim

Woz: wish the grade system could be abolished all should be progressive

Lily: and if class has 29 kids, someone is going to suffer

BEat: yes Well dos'nt put more prusser on the Teachers?]

anny1: our agency has advocates that go with parents and students to yearly meetings, it is helpful in explaining termanology as well as lets school staff know that they must be accountable for an appropriate education

WonderW: there really needs to be more understanding of learning disabilities

KimNchair: if they don't they are in can't think of weord ( not going by:) idea act so force them

Lily: i agree, ww

WonderW: without it, students are blamed

Lily: yup, called behavioural or dumb

KimNchair: wschools hate more than anything a parent with idea training:(

WonderW: problems mislabeled

Lily: true

Lily: and found too late, often

Lily: are all schools in USA accessible?

WonderW: yeah, mine wasn't found till I was 17 and in college already for two years

KimNchair: when justin was in 9 th grade , he was troublemaker so sent off to trouble maker school- they thought they had won the war

KimNchair: but justin was and is a leader after 3 days there they wanted to charge him with inciting a riot

Lily: in our board, only 1 in 10 is w/c accessible

WonderW: another thing is that they refused to take me to restroom

Lily: why?

Woz: funding is a major problem a teacher can handel no more than 10 ppl in a special ed

BEat: Yea but that only puts its back on the parent

Lily: up, woz, funding the big issue

Woz: if more then 10 someone will be left out

Lily: right

KimNchair: usa schools are required by law to be accessible but no many don't comply_) that's the word i was lookin for

WonderW: because I was too tall, and they wouldn't provide nurse, so my mom wld leave work to take me or I'd have to wait all day

anny1: not all are totally accessable but classes can be moved, back in the 70's the football players took turns caring me up stairs

BEat: Well how do they get on then

WonderW: this was in junir high

Lily: i c

Angel_27: some of my classes had to be brought down on main floor

Lily: yes, one school just kept moving a class to main floor, as SB student progressed

KimNchair: if i had known then what i know now i woulda owned those danged schools

KimNchair: so pretty much selective integration:(

Lily: what about workplace?

KimNchair: can't speak haven't worked with a dis

Angel_27: me either

Lily: where do we draw the line at accomodating dis>, and maintaining public safety?

WonderW: the department of rehab has proven to be less than helpful in my case

WonderW: tough question

BEat: ah yes How does it work there

anny1: i strongly believe that mainstreaming is good for some and not good for others such as those with SEVERE mental retardation

KimNchair: oh voc rehab is sending me to college:)

Woz: in my working years i did not see much in provisions for dis

WonderW: they won't do that for me because I have dyscalculia

BEat: Those that can its good!

Woz: about the only things wer weel chair ramps

anny1: all of my employers have been more than willing to accomodate my disability but i have worked for federal and state gov. mostly

WonderW: say I can't obtain degree, even though I said I am petitioning math req

Lily: does the USA have quotas which have to be filled?

Angel_27: I sort of liked going to public school, because I always wanted to blend in as much as possible.....not that we are still talking about school, sorry

Lily: it ok, angel

BEat: I went and got a job but hindsight , I would been better not too!

KimNchair: jalena was in wc for first grade , i had to take her in, set her on floor, go back get chair then load her into it again didn't even have a dang ramp

Lily: why, beat?

anny1: they have a special placement program for federal lil

WonderW: why, beat?

Lily: brb

Lily: cat problem

Woz: at i point in my career i was a lead man in a pilot fab dept my 2 best workers wer para

Woz: paraplegics

Lily: back

WonderW: cool

Woz: thay just worked harder to prove to the world their worth

KimNchair: nite

Lily: i think it depends on the type of work, and the dis of the person doingit

BEat: The work I ending up doing was very pyschial work, which made my dis worse in the long term

Woz: thay also made steady progression

Lily: ah, i see beat

Lily: whats a pilot fab dept, woz?

BEat: Alot just stay in workshops and there dis never changed

Woz: top assembl ppl

Woz: do work with engrg staff

Lily: did they get paid for this, beat?

Woz: work out bugs prior to production phase

WonderW: it's a bind: we can't work without education, many of us do not have money to pay for school, or we are unaware that funding exists or we don't qualify, if we cannot get education, jobs will be short-term and payments lowered

Lily: well,, woz, i dont see why paras couldnt do that

Lily: like a catch 22, ww?

WonderW: if we have esucation, then there is the questions of how much we can do in terms of energy/stamina

Lily: anny, you work, any observations?

WonderW: yeah

BEat: Yes they got a bit with there Penison, Some did very well thank you

Lily: true, i cud work, but fade after 4 hrs.

Lily: i dont have the stamina needed to teach all day

anny1: i agree that disabled must work harder to prove they are competent, ppl try to attack your work more often that they would if not disabled

WonderW: don't mean to depress you guys :) carry on

Lily: it ok, WW, it reality

BEat: I worked from 4 am till 11 am each day but the pay wasnt anything great

Lily: how long have you been working, anny?

Lily: thats a long shift beat

anny1: 14 yrs

Woz: physical dis is obvious its the non obvious that have the biggest fight i think

WonderW: I'm just frustrated because of how much money they took out when I worked as aninstructional aide

Lily: and is it better now, anny?

Lily: i agree, woz

WonderW: true, max, you have a point

Lily: my dis doesnt show that much, is largely perceptual

Woz: ldg dyslexic ppl just dont understand

BEat: Anny I agree with you 100% I always felt the same

anny1: has always been fine as to physical accomidation, i think that the subtle discrimination is still very much alive

Lily: its a good phrase

Lily: is anybody out there?????

anny1: not being selected for committees, not getting the promotion, tendancy of others to seek mistakes in your work are a few

Lily: did you find that also, beat?

WonderW: well, I had someone tell me I wouldn't be able to work without a catheter, his reasoning was that this would take burden off ppl who would otherwise be taking me to restroom

anny1: in every environment there are attackers and they see disabled as weak

BEat: People seem to look for mistake in your work

WonderW: and he was disabled himself, not too subtle, but I wondered what was going on behind it

Lily: so, we have to be better than the rest just to keep pace?

Mooooooo: yep

Lily: hmmmmm, i wonder, WW

anny1: it is true beat and i going to talk to someones supervisor about her tendancy to do that

BEat: I think thats A very real one Ww

Lily: do employers look for reasons not to hire those with dis?

WonderW: I don't want to have a catheter just to make it easier on everyone else

BEat: Lot of friends have gone thought the same thing!

WonderW: yes, I think so

Lily: no, WW, i agree

Angel_27: i agree WW

BEat: No why should you!

Lily: reader, do you go out to work?

Woz: i hate to say this but some co know some dis work harder so capitalize on that

WonderW: I think they overemphasize disabilities and use the excuse that they can't accomodate, if they didn't do that, they'd have to accomodate

Reader_13: no, I work in the Apt. complex where I live...

Angel_27: and here they get a tax break too for hiring disabled

anny1: i think so 2 laura

Lily: is this tax break a federal or state thing?

WonderW: that's not meant as a blanket statement, but I've seen it

Angel_27: I dont know I just have heard that they get a tax break

BEat: Yes here they get alot of money for hiring people with a dis

Lily: no, there's always exceptions, depends on employer

anny1: the deal with the tax break is they lay off the disabled worker after the tax benefit no longer exists here in tx

Lily: you are in aust. beat?

BEat: yes

Lily: ive heard of that in ca, anny

WonderW: oh man, anny

Woz: sad but true

Woz: i have seen that to

Woz: buig business tend to be ruthles

Lily: so, after a yr or so is up, they find a reason to let the dis person go?

anny1: happens all the time with mentally disabled maybe not so much with other disabilities

BEat: Its the same here its cuts out after while and people with a dis do get put off

anny1: yep that's the deal

Lily: are smaller businesses better, woz?

Angel_27: but I have to give credit to where my husband works, they work with him really well and his needs

WonderW: WHAT DOES HE HAVE?

WonderW: ooops

WonderW: sorry

Woz: i have to say some co like hewlett packard have contributed much however

anny1: that's good there are exceptions bev

Lily: lol, emphatic

WonderW: lol

Angel_27: He is paralyzed from chest down due to a birth injury

BEat: this is well after my time but

WonderW: oh, ok

Woz: but that a minority i think

Lily: go on, beat

Lily: yes, woz, i think so too

BEat: When I got my job there where very very few pple with dis. Working

Lily: what does he do there, angel?

Angel_27: he is a people greeter part time and loves it

Woz: mental have hard time getting meaningfull employment

anny1: do yall think ADA has been of any real assistance on the job front?

WonderW: well....

WonderW: yes and no

Woz: thay tend to wind up in food service home care or entry leval sobs if any

Lily: elaborate, WW?

WonderW: yes in the sense that public opinion has been raised, accomodation not a foreign concept

Lily: and the downside?

WonderW: no in the sense that so many ppl have claimed to be disabled that it hurts us

anny1: true woz but strides have been made as years ago they were all in workshops with no opportunity to even persue outside employment

Lily: true, i know that theres a lot of mis-use here

Woz: probably more in the us

Woz: dead beats

Lily: closing comments, anyone?

Mooooooo: yes

anny1: has been interesting meeting

Mooooooo: thank you :o)

Lily: do ppl take advantage of the system?

Woz: hehe

BEat: thanks

Lily: lol

Lily: your welcome

Mooooooo: yes, they do

Lily: thank you all for coming:)

Woz: hehe thank you

Lily: i agree, moooooo

Lily: np:)

Lily: isintesting topic, maybe we can persue it further

Mooooooo: i agree, we should soon

anny1: yes plenty of opinions on this one

Lily: ok:)

Lily: yees

anny1: bbl

Lily: ill tell judi

Mooooooo: i have a request

Mooooooo: too all those who pray, please pray for Judi

Lily: sure?

Angel_27: i sure will moo

Lily: yes, i will

WonderW: me too

Mooooooo: thanks :o)

Lily: we will storm heaven, mooooooo:)

Woz: good show all

Mooooooo: i'll stop log now

END