Created by and for people with physical disabilities.

Alternative Therapies and The Power of the Mind - by Tobias (T_J)

Feb 03, 1999

This is an archival transcript of one of our past meetings. We don't have scheduled topical meetings anymore, but we're not opposed to the idea of bringing them back if someone is willing to commit to hosting them on a "long term" basis.

Participants already present:
  ChanServ ([email protected])
  Mooooooo ([email protected])
Lonewolf: Welcome to our meeting tonight
T_J: Sorry for being late, had trouble getting connected
Lonewolf: We have a guest speaker tonight
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Lonewolf: Tobias would youplease intro yourself
T_J: Ok, LW.
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T_J: I´m 21 years old
T_J: I live in Sweden
Lonewolf: Please tell everyone what got you into Alternative Therapes
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wacky: ping me
Lonewolf: T_J?
haa: ping wacky
Lily: 2sec
T_J: And the disability I have is a brain-injury when I was one year old. Then, by 4½ years of age, I began travelling to theUS for a treatment there.
Lonewolf: no-this is meeting toime
T_J: In short
T_J: =)
KimberlyM: [wacky PING reply]: 1 second
KimberlyM: -
wacky: :)
Lonewolf: T_J would you go ahead with your first question
Lonewolf: excuse me a moment please
T_J: Since then I have tried some more treatments too, but that was one of the best.
T_J: Are the traditional treatments the physicians tell us about the only ones?
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Lonewolf: no, I don't think so
T_J: Anyone else?
Bruce: Hi lone how are you?
Lonewolf: sorry bruce no chat
Lonewolf: meting time
T_J: Just trying to get more to join in...
Lily: i never tried anything umconventional
Lonewolf: not you T_J
zelda: Sometimes Docs only know about convential methods
Lonewolf: T_J would something like a TENS unit be considered alternative?
intrepid: I like herbal remedues
adam: eve sais; most doctors only use what is the expected treatment sometomes because they are afraid of geting sued
intrepid: yes, Judi
Lonewolf: probably very true
zelda: also because there are no FDA regs on herbal meds they are concerned
T_J: Yes, I would say so too
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Lonewolf: yes that bothers me
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anny1: i like echinechia
Lonewolf: T_J what do you think of that?
zelda: however I see more and more docs getting into herberal meds and other techiniques then they us eto
haa: For alternatives, I use vitamins,minerals, green teas and restrain from animal fats, hydrogenated foods/oils,
zelda: however is still very limieted
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zelda: agree helen
zelda: docs do push vitamins
Lonewolf: T_J I know you had comments on this
intrepid: I've used magnetic therapy, ultrasound, massage. lumph node stimulation
intrepid: lymph
T_J: Yes, LW, and I don´t think that it´s the only ones either.
Lonewolf: go on
anny1: anyone else tried time release vitimins?
Lonewolf: all kinds of things I have never heard of
T_J: To much the docs don´t know or care about to know.
zelda: agree TJ
Lonewolf: Is it the same in country?
T_J: In my country LW?
haa: and i've started using magnetic therapy for my carpal tunnel in left wrist
zelda: I do find that exercise, meditation, yoga and vita mins help me and when I dont do those things
Lonewolf: 2)Should we be satisfied with what the traditional physicians tell us?
zelda: and if I eat meat make me worse
anny1: does magnetic therapy help?
* Mooooooo works for a company called KareMor. They sell
Lonewolf: I meant the attitude toward alternative therapies
zelda: sorry LW
Lonewolf: about what
haa: Magnetic therapy does seem to help me.
zelda: I beleive we need to educate ourselves and our physicians
adam: eve sais i've heard that in europe that when a person is recovering from an illness that they go sometimes to a place like a spa for several weeks
T_J: Good LW, I´m new in leading a discussion like this.
Lonewolf: wo adam
Lonewolf: doing fine T_J go on
zelda: but no I do not beleive we should be sasitified wiht just what the docs tell us
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T_J: Zelda, yes, but all doesn´t want to learn...
Lonewolf: no me either zelda
Lonewolf: Laura what was the lymph node thing?
zelda: I have been luckly TJ have got docs who like to learn
intrepid: it's a rype of massage
T_J: I certainly think we are not going to blindly take in what they tell us
anny1: i believe we are evolving to aplace where mainstriem med. will accept more and more of alternative therapy and eastern medicine
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zelda: also have two docs who are real big on diet and belive that we need to be careful what we eat that it effects our health
Lonewolf: never heard of tht-did it help?
intrepid: used to stimulate lymph nodes and take out poisons
intrepid: yes
T_J: Always look for another treatment if not satisfied with the one they tell you about.
Lonewolf: ok but wait a sec
Lonewolf: I'm an RN a skeptic
Lily: brb
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Kark: What stimulated lymph nodes?
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Lonewolf: if I mentioned magnets I would probably get thron off the edge of the world
T_J: LOW: What have you heard of alternative treatments, since you´re a sceptic?
Lonewolf: 3)Is the western view on different disabilities and illnesses the only right one?
intrepid: massage, sometimes done with small machine
anny1: how did you find out about lymph node stim. laura?
Kark: I heard about magnet
Kark: They sell the magneticpads in big department stores
adam: what about aqupunture?
intrepid: I went to a lady that also does colonics, several years ago, and we did it, and there's a woman in San Diego I'd like to go to
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judi: sorry-got kicked offline
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judi: 3)Is the western view on different disabilities and illnesses the only right one?
T_J: I do not think so, because, because the Western view tends to see more to the symptoms of the dis or illness.
intrepid: yes
judi: T_J would you wxplainthis one?
intrepid: not whole person
Aleah: quit
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judi: could you explain please T_J?
anny1: unfortunatly it is the only one insurance will pay for at this point
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haa: I'm not sure about what's right or who gets to decide that...but for me what works is important.
judi: yes
adam: i think now the term is wholistic medicine
T_J: OK, Judi, we in West like to believe we are the best in treating different kinds of dis/illnesses, and therefore we tend to see others as less worthy.
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judi: I see T_J
pattio: has anyone ever tried noni juice?
judi: you are right about the way diseases are looked at
T_J: Such as the holistic medicine for example.
judi: what is that pattio?
T_J: No pattio
judi: is it an herb?
pattio: well I heard it is a juice from polynesia area, supposed to have a wide range of healing attributes becuase it acts on the mino acid levels
judi: do you mean osteopaths T_J?
judi: interesting
T_J: Not only those judi
anny1: our system is set up so that extensive double-blind studies are required for anything to be officialll accepted in the u.s.
pattio: so it is far reaching and helps healing at the cellular level
judi: and like accupuncturistsetc?
T_J: pattio, does the noni work for you?
pattio: blood problems, conective tissue etc
T_J: anny: Coming to that later.
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pattio: I hve not tried it yet, friends of mine are on it and I am waiting to see what they find..I am chicken!!
judi: 4) Are placebo effects only misguiding and bad?
intrepid: not sure
T_J: Ok, pattio. I´ve heard some about it too
Woz: me2
anny1: ok tj
judi: me either Laura
pattio: ok good to know others have heard some about it..there is tons of info. on the internet aobut it but mostly from a selling perspective
T_J: I think it´s not only for bad. Olthough some docs think so.
adam: the power of the mind is also important
Woz: but have not tried it
judi: agreed adam
intrepid: I mean, if it removes an effect, good
T_J: anny: Such as now. =)
judi: my doc keeps telling me to quit believing everything I see on the internet
pattio: lol judi!!!!
Woz: bio feedback works for dome things
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judi: the brain does release chemicals similiar to opium
adam: it's important to keep an open mind
intrepid: but when the person sees it's a placebo, will it make whatever the condition is any less real to them?
judi: so I can see where a placebo could work if someone believed in it for like a pain med
T_J: judi: To an extent. But not all on the net is bad.
anny1: you mean endorphens judi?
judi: I know
judi: yes
T_J: But one has to be critical about it
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T_J: adam, you´re right.
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adam: it's also important to be well informed about things in the medical field
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adam: what happened moooooooo?
Mooooooo: split
adam: everybody just went.............poof!
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judi: yes even killed our bot
haa: :)
intrepid-: it is relaxing, and gets the focus off yourself
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judi: yes
Mooooooo: woohoo
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judi: anny you said you meditate?
anny1: yes about 15 min each morning
Woz: i used to meditate
judi: ho?
judi: how?
judi: I have tried diff methods
Woz: thru visualization
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judi: that's what i did max
T_J: Back...
adam: yes we would be interedsted in knoiwing about meditation
judi: our speaker has returned
Woz: it helps with pain
judi: e are on meditation now T_J
anny1: relaxation, deep breathing, visualization,prayer
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T_J: Have you continued?
judi: do you guys use music?
judi: yes
T_J: Òk, which question?
judi: meditation T_J
Woz: not for meditation
T_J: Aha
anny1: not ususally
judi: does anyone?
T_J: I find it good for a lot of things.
judi: like?
Woz: relaxing
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adam: how do you meditate?
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T_J: Stressreducing, focusing better...
suze: can meditation help with insomnia?
Woz: not for me
judi: supposedly it debreases blood pressure increases circulation etc and I think it works!!
T_J: judi, it does =)
suze: i am just about to start learning about meditation
anny1: never tried it for insomnia
Woz: it is similal to biofeedback
judi: can e mention bio feedback here?
judi: lol max
KimberlyM: what increases circulation judi?
judi: deep meditation
intrepid-: I use a lot of musuc
Woz: had a eye injury lacerated cornina
T_J: Yes, sure why not, after all, it has with this to do
Kark: Suze I recently cut all cafine, do you drink coffee or other caffenated drinks
adam: do you say anything when you do it like a preyer?
anny1: took class in biofeedback years ago
Woz: used bio to assist
suze: no, i don't kark
Mooofasa: brb
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haa: excercise, excercise and more excercise stimulates circulation
Kark: oh, I found I was sleeping better without it
judi: a friend of mine did a master's thesis on biofeedback
Woz: the dr are suprised that i have the sight in the injured that i have
judi: interesting max
Kark: yes exercize helps almost everything I hear
judi: yes haa
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suze: it is hard for me to exercise
judi: me too suze
T_J: adam: No, but I think that work just as well, it helps you clear your mind, though I, myself don´t use it
judi: 7) Can visualization help?
Kark: I have limited abilites but physical therapy did a world of good
judi: I use prayer a lot
suze: are there any particular meditation tapes anyone would like to recommend
suze: for someone who is just beginning this process?
judi: suze I have a good one I'll send you the name of it e-mail
suze: thank you
suze: laura, what do u do with music?
judi: T_J how is all this diff from self hypnosis
suze: i came in late
Woz: i will talk to anyone in open chat on meditation & biofeedback
haa: Suze i am a quad and the types of excercise I do are isometrics abdominal and/or any other muscle tighting facial, muscles and left wrist
judi: my PT insisted on isometrics
suze: ok, yes, i hope to be in a program again next month of physical therapy in water
T_J: judi: It´s kind of self hypnotic, telling your body to do this, similar efects.
Woz: yes visualization is very good
judi: I used to do that and thought it helped
intrepid-: I listen to it all the time, pray with it, sanbce, etc
suze: are there any books any of you would recommend?
anny1: i hear very good things about wter therapy
intrepid-: dance
Kark: haa don't you feel a difference
T_J: used to, then why did you quit?
judi: I'll check Suze
intrepid-: I'm doing water therapy now
judi: I dunno T_J
Woz: joseph rhine banks did a v good book on hypnosis
Kark: How is that working intrep?
intrepid-: I recommend not doing it with a therapist
judi: self hypnosis?
haa: yes karen, i feel it is very beneficial...and I have a chin now :)
intrepid-: if possible
suze: is that self-hypnosis for relaxation, meditation?
T_J: suze, I can give you some tips later, don´t know their exact titles now
Woz: all forms of hypnosis
judi: 8) Is it important to have a comfortable and pleasant environment containing things we like, such as pictures, music, etc. and, also, to have someone we trust, who cares about us, giving us support etc.?
suze: ok, what do u mean laura, u recommend not doing it w/therapist
T_J: suze, meditaion can be used for a lot of things, for example relaxing
Woz: visual meditation & hypnosis are related
suze: i have had positive experience with physical therapist
judi: water therapy used to help me a lot
T_J: Visualisation, help you focus on your goal, and even helped in cancer treatment
T_J: Woz: Right
judi: wish wat was here
intrepid-: I mean that sometimes, therapists give you things to do in water, sometimes it is better to discover water yourself
T_J: Why so judi?
intrepid-: visualization is helpful
judi: he would like this conversation-he is a positive thinker
suze: he can read this
T_J: Ok.
judi: I visualize a waterfall and green banks
suze: ahh, nice
anny1: hypnosis is to put acertian thought in subconcious
judi: you mean llike relaxation?
anny1: meditation iand relaxation are for general well being i think
Woz: also for healing
T_J: Everybody has their own favorite room in their mind.
judi: 9) Can diets alter our conditions?
judi: sorry that as too quick
Woz: yes so thay say
judi: we haven't touched the environment question
intrepid-: to a point
haa: most definitely yes,yes,yes
adam: yes
suze: what do u think about alternative medications?
Kark: They say so, I need to find a good diet
suze: sorry, that was not topic
intrepid-: such as, suze?
judi: its ok suze like what?
suze: well, i saw someone who recommended that i take aloe leaf pills
T_J: I think it´s rather crucial to have a comfortable environment, and the rest in that question...
judi: haa you are pretty much on a pure organic diet?
haa: close judi, very little meat
judi: yes T_J and it has set my mind to thinking since I saw the question
Woz: alo is best for topical
suze: i was also told to not eat bread, pasta and rice
judi: hum
suze: not rice, corn
judi: eat aloe leaves?
T_J: Have we jump the environment question?
anny1: why none of these suze?
judi: sorry
Woz: alo for burns
suze: it's a pill aloe vera, leaf only
T_J: Doesn´t matter, take it after this then.
judi: ok
suze: they said i'm allergic to those
judi: T_J do you know about aloe?
suze: and need to cleanse my system of that
Woz: we keep 2 alovera plants to use as a topical ointment
judi: me too max
T_J: The plant aloe? Yes
suze: i bought them but haven't tried the pills yet
judi: no the pill
suze: i want to talk to my doc firrst
Woz: dont think it helps much internaly
T_J: Haven´t heard of that one
judi: good idea suze
judi: hat do you guys think of the pot issue
suze: what??
anny1: anyone seen a dr of naturepathy? they specialize in alternative stuff
suze: |the drug??
suze: marijuana?
judi: yes
T_J: About diests, it can help to trim the immune defence and so on
judi: legalizing marijuana
suze: i don't do that
judi: for use in cancer patients etc
Woz: ive known cancer patients who have used mj
T_J: I don´t like it, and wouldn´t take it either
judi: I read that it even calms the nausea
adam: how do they use pot against cancer?!
anny1: wat use to control pain i think
haa: i don't like marijuana, it ruins party's :)
Woz: onl in the controal of pain
judi: the article I read said it reduces pain and nausea
T_J: haa, not only that...
adam: i agree with you haaa
T_J: Woz, there are other ways of doing that.
Woz: k
Woz: im not advocating mj
anny1: i think that it has a bad rap becouse so many use recreationally
judi: I think there is a bill in congress concerning the legalization of mj as a drug
T_J: I didn´t think so eitheer Woz
judi: mdwould write prescription etc
T_J: Ok.
Kark: Well if it helps the quality of life I guess its ok
adam: pot for potheads only
judi: I have never been around it but isn't that negative thinking also?
Kark: I just cant seeing it doing anything good except stimulate appitite
adam: eve disagrees with me she sais it helps with cancer amnd aids
Woz: queen ann used mj for cramps the mence thing
judi: it does that?
anny1: i think if used per prescription is ok
Kark: it makes you doppy
T_J: Kark, there is many who would claim that it enhances the qualiyies
judi: so does morphine Karen
Kark: true
haa: i think pot makes you forget about it(pain) and is not a cure
T_J: Consider why it is good for nausea, etc.
T_J: haa, I think so too'
judi: I've seen ca patients screaming with pain on highdoses of morphine
Kark: I tried it but I didn't inhale lol
Kark: I have tried it and it only mademe doppy
haa: :)
haa: doppy head :) lol
judi: let's go back to the environment question
KimberlyM: i've never tried it:(
Woz: mj is not a cure it aleviatas if you can stand the smell
T_J: As it affects your brain in a negative way, I wouldn´t even consider it.
anny1: what was t he?
judi: Kim I've never even seen it
haa: what is the enviroment ?
adam: environment is important
T_J: I agree adam
judi: 8) Is it important to have a comfortable and pleasant environment containing things we like, such as pictures, music, etc. and, also, to have someone we trust, who cares about us, giving us support etc.?
adam: in giving a person cheerfull environment it makes them happy and less sick sais eve
intrepid-: yes
suze: do u think that plants are good for your home??
intrepid-: yes
Woz: if you like them
suze: is it because they emit oxygen??
haa: i agree with eve
judi: supposed to be relaxing
judi: contribute to air quality
judi: grow mold
T_J: suze: Depends on if you like plants, but I definitely would say yes
intrepid-: lol
suze: ok, just wondering
judi: what about lighting
suze: what else can u do to improve air quality in home?
judi: T_J?
T_J: Yes?
anny1: personall i find a lot of comffort from my pets
Woz: plants good during the day not at night unless you like the looks
judi: suze's ?
judi: I haven't a clue
Kark: yet pets make the world of difference
suze: tj, what else can one do to improve air quality in home?
adam: have a good wide to clean up after you
judi: agreed Karen
Woz: pets are good
judi: e have an air cleaner on our furnace
haa: first of all, the indoor air, has to be recirculated 100% every 2 hours
adam: i mean a good wiffffffe
suze: what is an air cleaner?
judi: uh
T_J: Hm, I don´t know what it´s called in English, but I think it´s air moisterer.
KimberlyM: pets are good fir wgat?
suze: humidifier???
T_J: Help if the air is dry
Woz: lighting is important if it has a 5500 degree kelvin
judi: thing on furnace that takes out dust etc-I think
suze: hmmm
judi: no
adam: what about ionized air?
judi: this isn't a humidifier
suze: ok
KimberlyM: or air purifier?
suze: still don't understand
suze: what is an ap?
suze: is it some kind of machine?
judi: I think its what Kim said
Woz: thay claim ionization is helpfull
judi: is that what an air cleaner does max?
T_J: judi: Could be, as I said, don´t know the term in English
suze: i do use one of those water pitchers that purifies your water
Woz: waterfall generate negative ions
Kark: negative ions?
judi: All I know is the air is circulated through the air filter and the return is supposed to be better
T_J: Never heard of.
adam: it takes out impurities
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judi: the filter has to be cleaned frequently
Woz: ionic air filters are best thay thay particals in the micron range
T_J: judi, it cleans pollution...
Woz: trap
judi: yes
judi: house less dusty
suze: hmmm
T_J: Yes
suze: that's worth exploring
intrepid-: I have one
Woz: can eaven trap bacteria
judi: drs told my daughtr to set up a room air cleaner for David
judi: do you Laura?
Woz: back to the light issue
judi: yes
suze: r u saying a certain type of bulb?
suze: certain wattage
Woz: daylight has a posative value in the psych areas
suze: or type of bulb
judi: true
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judi: so what kind is best?
suze: yes, i agree, i was just told i should get a certain kind of bulb
Woz: fluorescent daylight tumes
Woz: tubes
T_J: Just have lights that you like.
suze: i don't have tube fixtures
T_J: As for daylight I´d prefer the normal day
judi: some of us don't get out much T_J
haa: we use fluorescent bulbs and also halogen bulbs
suze: yes, but you can open the blinds and let the sunshine in
T_J: No, neither do I but at least we all have windows
suze: i'm just starting to do that
judi: I get nervous and irritable when bright lights are on
Woz: fluorescent tubes come in warm white cold white daylight and growlights the
haa: but mostly we have tons of windows, so lots of natural light
adam: eve sais flurorescent lights are used to treat some types of deprtession
Woz: thats true
judi: I've heard that adam
T_J: Yes, I know
Woz: the tubes should of the daylight type
judi: anything else on environment T_J?
adam: i've noticed at times that the best type of light is lovelight
Woz: the others dont work
judi: 10) Is it only through drugs and medicines that we are can alleviate spasticity?
T_J: No, don´t think so, have an environment you can reaslax and feel at home with
intrepid-: I have dimmers on all my lights
haa: lovelights???
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judi: me too Laura-very light sensitive
T_J: That´s good
intrepid-: easier to control and helps calm me in evening
judi: T_J go with 10 because I'm totally dumb
intrepid-: I'll help
T_J: With the 10?
judi: go for it
intrepid-: I think not
judi: question 10-I posted it
T_J: Ok. I noticed that
intrepid-: I've been on several anti-spasticity drugs
Woz: spasticity
T_J: I haven´t used any drugs, and are spastic.
Woz: #10
intrepid-: and heat, ice, and stretching work well
judi: what helps T_J?
T_J: It does intre
intrepid-: magnetic therapies help me
intrepid-: too
T_J: Well, on the method I was on rather long, IAHP (sent a link about that)
judi: http://www.iahp.org/
judi: cud you explain
T_J: They´ll make programmes for you, and it deals with spasticitty too
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judi: what about someone like me T_J I have leg spasms from nerve damage in legs
haa: I gotta go. good-night all...and thks TJ :)
judi: sorry-meant in back
Woz: i know a plastic surgeon who tried magnetics got better results from hyperbaric chamber
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judi: yes what about that hyper chamber T_K?
judi: T_J
T_J: Coming to that.
T_J: I think its´s great, while I tried it.
judi: k
judi: oh o you tried it?
judi: what did it do for ou?
Woz: it works for burns septic infections
Woz: and
judi: carbon monoxide poisening
Woz: yes
T_J: I got less spastic as more blood came through to my injured parts, and it was easier to move, better balance, better response for the neuro impulses from the brain
Woz: thay are doing testing at bethesda
judi: 11) Iwas it expensive?
T_J: Could do and still can do, things that was impossible for me before
judi: how many treatments did you have?
Woz: full size chambers are expencive in cost
judi: that might help you Laura
judi: 11) Is it true that there is nothing to do about a brain injury?
intrepid-: hmmmm
T_J: Well, let´s see, I think it was about 50 or 60, but I´ll going to continue with it in a few weeks
Woz: thay are greatly used & cheeper at a plastic surgeons office
judi: is this done in the US much
T_J: Ok Woz
Woz: all the time for the plastic work
judi: 11) Is it true that there is nothing to do about a brain injury?
T_J: Don´t think so, but it´s used more and morejudi
judi: ok
judi: T+J do you walk any?
T_J: Not true. If it was, I eould be here.
judi: explain
T_J: Only with support, but not good then either.
KimberlyM: nite yall
T_J: If it wasn´t for IAHP, I would still be very immobile.
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judi: hum
T_J: Have to train every they in order to maintain or get better.
Woz: what is iahp
T_J: An institute in USA, in Philadelphia
intrepid-: can I say something herea?
judi: sure
T_J: Helps brain injured
T_J: Yes
judi: Max check out the site I posted earlier
Woz: k
judi: go on Laura
intrepid-: well, I have a problem with the focus of most therapy for the brain injured because
intrepid-: it is focused on getting better and fixinfg the prob, which has left me feeling immensely damaged
intrepid-: so where do we draw the line?
T_J: intrepid: What kind of dis do you have?
intrepid-: Cerebral Palsy
judi: good point Laura
intrepid-: any ideas?
intrepid-: I struggle with this a lot
judi: T_J?
T_J: Me too, but if you don´t like these ideas, just don´t mind.
judi: but what choice do you have Laura?
T_J: But CP is one of those that you can get better in
Woz: laura have you had a brain scan
T_J: And I would recommend HBO and the IAHP.
T_J: What therapies have you tried?
Woz: my niece was diagnosed as cp but it was a bleeder at birth not cp
intrepid-: water, magnetic, herbal
Woz: it showed up in arecent scan
intrepid-: but lately
intrepid-: I've just done everything without therapists
Woz: a small part of the brain just did not grow
intrepid-: and I find it aesier
judi: but what if the chamber didn't help her? She wud feel even worse
T_J: Woz: Probably of a brain injury and those occuring at birth or some time after it, clasifies as CP.
intrepid-: no judgements on what should be
judi: I kinda kno what you mean Laura-I have taken many therapies and drug therapies that haven't helped
T_J: Should? No, I won´t say that, I´m only recommanding things I know has helped me
judi: just made me feel hopeless
Woz: k all
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judi: 12) Are auto-immune disabilities (such as lupus etc), really untreatable?
intrepid-: it seems toi be more healing for me, at least at this point
judi: not curable but treatable
T_J: intrepid: If you like we can discuss this more later
T_J: Well, I know about cases that has been well.
intrepid-: ok, tj
judi: nothing is going to change the genetic coding in the cells
T_J: intrepid: Mail?
judi: Enbrel is helping me
T_J: Oh, maybe not, but the way they work
T_J: HBO, for example help for lupus
intrepid-: [email protected]
judi: really T_J?
T_J: And about MS, well, doesn´t cure it, but it takes away the symptoms, to an extent.
judi: interesting
judi: I want to get these other url's in
judi: ttp://www.fseng.demon.co.uk/hot4cp/HBO.html Hyperbaric Oxygen Treatment, good information how this treatment work, and what it is.
judi: http://surf.to/hot Hyberbaric Oxygen Trust, and their treatments. Good for brain-injured, burns, MS, Lupus, Arthritis, Post-Operative Swelling, Leg Ulcers...they also have treatments with Amino Acis and MSM, very informative site.
judi: Do you have anything else?
T_J: Yes, the first one explains about HBO.
judi: anyone?
T_J: Have tried the Amino Acids and MSM
judi: T_J thanks a bunch
judi: what's MSM?
T_J: Hard to explain, it´s a phosphate
judi: well its late so if no one has anything else e'll close
T_J: It´s helps your cells work better
judi: T_J I can't thank you enough-I learned a lot
intrepid-: ok Judi
intrepid-: good meeting
intrepid-: bye
judi: yes very productive
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T_J: If you want more info, just ask
judi: bye
judi: ok
T_J: bye
T_J: Great you thought that =)
T_J: Nice to be able to share knowledge =)
judi: excellent T_J