Created by and for people with physical disabilities.

Born With It or Acquired It: The Pro's and Con's

Apr 07, 1999

This is an archival transcript of one of our past meetings. We don't have scheduled topical meetings anymore, but we're not opposed to the idea of bringing them back if someone is willing to commit to hosting them on a "long term" basis.

Participants already present:
  ChanServ ([email protected])
  Mooooooo ([email protected])
Lonewolf: Hello everyone
Kim^^: hi
wacky: yo mamma
Lonewolf: Tonight I have all the disabled bases covered
beat: Hi
Lonewolf: If you are disabled you either had to be born with it or acquired it
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wacky: but Judi?????
Lonewolf: Let's review the rules before we begin
wacky: what if its both?
Lonewolf: Type ! to make a statement
Lonewolf: Type ? to ask a question
Lonewolf: I will call on you one at a time
Lonewolf: either one will do brian
Lonewolf: 1. If you are born disabled, does it make it easier to accept your
Lonewolf: limitations?
Lonewolf: Brian
Lonewolf: Bri?
wacky: born dis I never felt I had any limit ations its just how i was
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Lonewolf: beat
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Lonewolf: beat?
Lonewolf: 1. If you are born disabled, does it make it easier to accept your
Lonewolf: limitations?
Lonewolf: for ww and for hazem
beat: yes i feel what you never know you never miss
WonderW: thanks
Lonewolf: Karen
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Lonewolf: 1. If you are born disabled, does it make it easier to accept your
Lonewolf: limitations?
Kark: I feel that with me it was just instinct that I servive and do like everyone else becase I was born with it
GennyIrsh: Have I missed much?
Lonewolf: Karen?
WonderW: no, dear
wacky: !
Lonewolf: sorry
Lonewolf: anny
anny1: yes i agree with others, have never known myself as not disabled
GennyIrsh: I'm sorry I ever new how to walk.
GennyIrsh: I hate it.
Lonewolf: Genny please type ! or ? and I will call on you
GennyIrsh: Oh ok
Lonewolf: Brian
GennyIrsh: sorry
Lonewolf: np
wacky: I will say that even tho i accepted early dis and didnt feel different I still saw that I was Different
Lonewolf: gismo
WonderW: ! to say somethung and ? to ask a question, Genn
gismo: i at lest had 18 yrs to look back on and appreciate
WonderW: 1
Lonewolf: ww
Lonewolf: Laura?
WonderW: I think it is easier, but it makes socialuzing with nondisabled kids harder as a child, if parents not caerful
Lonewolf: true
Lonewolf: beat
WonderW: sorry, am slower typing lately, tighter
beat: You alway go though stages where you whish you where normal
Lonewolf: If you guys go ahead and type in what you want to say it will make you feel less pressured
Lonewolf: how so beat?
Lonewolf: hazem
hazem: I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, I got used to my disability, it becomes normal, and you forget about it.
Kim^^: vr58769890--0-o 675t45 12` 3b57/h- 650'/
hazem: Its how you mix in with the rest of society, and that shouldn't changewhenever you become disabled.
beat: As you grow you see your brothers doing thing you can't do that hard
Lonewolf: Genny
GennyIrsh: I am really sad that I ever new how to walk
GennyIrsh: It hurts because a soon as I stop walking ppl left me.
Kim^^: i ging onyo bed bitite yakl
Lonewolf: Brian
^^shaz^^: bue kim
GennyIrsh: nit kim
wacky: i donno Lara I had the oposite prob I couldnt socialize w/ dis kids but then I was expected to pass as AB as much as I could i think it can go both was
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wacky: ways
^^shaz^^: bye kim
WonderW: it's hard when siblings tease or act abusive, which happenrd to me]
Lily: what can parents do, to make there dis. child feel better abt themselves?
wacky: yea i know
GennyIrsh: or wishing you where them.
wacky: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lily: oops, sorry, hit enter
Lonewolf: brian
WonderW: my dad was like that, Brian, my mom opposite, was very confusing
GennyIrsh: I can't talk about this stuff It upset me too much.
wacky: they can create an open forum for dis kids and their sitalk openly not to ignore it
GennyIrsh: Goodnight and GodBless.
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^^shaz^^: bye gen
wacky: they can create an open forum for dis kids and their sib to talk openly not to ignore it
Lily: i c
WonderW: yeah
Lonewolf: anny
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anny1: i think that grief about dis. goes in cycles
anny1: from grief to acceptance
WonderW: but that seems rare
anny1: anger to acceptance
Lonewolf: Alison
Lily: i agree, in the case of acquired ones, it the same, anny
Lonewolf: gis
gismo: ?t
Lily: stages of acceptance
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Lonewolf: gismo go ahead
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gismo: hello?
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Lonewolf: beat
Lonewolf: go on beat
Lonewolf: shaz
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^^shaz^^: gee,i have difficulty in accepting mine, as society tends to remind me, am trying to fight it.
Lonewolf: what is your dis?
WonderW-: are we on same question?
^^shaz^^: deaf
Lonewolf: yes
WonderW-: ok
Lonewolf: yes I can see that
Kark: ?!
^^shaz^^: ok
Lonewolf: Ithink itsBrian, karen
beat: I don't feel they can do that much at all except encourge them to do as much as they can
Lonewolf: then Karen I meant
Kark: I had a big family, do you think that made a difference?, maybe it took the focus off me, busy house
Lonewolf: cud be
Lonewolf: Brian
WonderW-: good
wacky: Um I found that aquirring it was easier
wacky: > Now when I got my SCI in add. to the CP with the CP masked ppl treat my more human.... as if I was AB at one point
Lonewolf: gismo did you have something to say?
Lonewolf: interesting Brian
gismo3: i was cut off please continue
Lonewolf: anny
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anny1: i prefer my 2nd dis. seizure disorder becouse fewer ppl have seen it
Lonewolf: an invisible disability
Lonewolf: france's response:
Lonewolf: ?I was born with all my disabilities except the back injury and I woukd say yes.
Lonewolf: Have I missed anyone?
WonderW-: it's true, I think, that neurological disabilities/perceptual difficulties are the most misunderstood, feared and
WonderW-: looked down upom
Lonewolf: gismo
gismo3: is disability more than a state of mind?
Lonewolf: open floor on that one-just comment freely
WonderW-: depends what you mean
wacky: well yes and no....
Lonewolf: beat?
gismo3: i dont feel ....different im still me
atrpilot: you dam right
beat: Iguess my back injury was the hardest to cope with
anny1: it is the state of mind of the disabled and the non-disabled
wacky: I am a gimp yes but does it stop me from living a full productive life NOT one BIT
^^shaz^^: good on you, wacky.
Lonewolf: Took me a long time to admit I was disabled
Lily: im still me on the inside, but get treated diff. by most of society
beat: Why
wacky: They are afraid of what they do not wish
WonderW-: I mean, if you say it's all a state of mind you may always feel that if you just worked harder, etc, you could remove it, and thus never reach true acceptance; on other hand, if you could, but think you can't, you won't
hazem: Being disabled is part of who I am, I like me, all of me. If I weren't disabled, I'd be someone else.
wacky: They are afraid of what they do not understand I mean
Lonewolf: I like what hazem said
^^shaz^^: yes, thats true.
Lily: i think you right, wacky
gismo3: ooops was loaded question sorry if off topic
Lonewolf: no that was a great question
gismo3: but very informative answers
Lonewolf: bri
anny1: i have times where i feel like hazem and others wen i feel i am screaming inside saying i am just like everybody else and most don't see
Lonewolf: gis
wacky: It wasnt untill i came to disabled I could say how or why I had a SCI or that i had cP too it was lara that forced that out of me
wacky: I hate/ love her for it too
Lonewolf: lol
gismo3: i find most people treat me normal once they know me only strangers treat me diiff
beat: If we can't come to the poin where we can say yes we are disable and then get on with life act
WonderW-: I'm proud that you do
Lonewolf: Yes after I admitted I was disabled life became easier
wacky: sorry lara its true
Lonewolf: in my head I mean
anny1: i put pressure on those who know me well to treat me normally
WonderW-: I know :)
Lonewolf: anyone else before we moveon?
Lonewolf: ok back to the rules
Lonewolf: 2. If you acquire your disabilities, is it easier to accept your
Lonewolf: limitations?
Lonewolf: gis
gismo3: yes
Lonewolf: bri
beat: being a chirstan made it easy for me
Lonewolf: brian
wacky: harder for me but then I went form being fairly independent walker to helpless
Lonewolf: charlie
wacky: and HOW I GOT it had a lot to do w/ my adjustment
atrpilot: yes yes anyes
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Lonewolf: ali
Lily: harder, it was a complete identity change, i had to redefine whi i was
Lonewolf: hazem
Lily: who
WonderW-: well, I don't think so, when I was younger, I could use a walker, and I went through all kinds of self-blame and guilt that I could no longer do that
hazem: It shouldn't make a difference,
Lonewolf: Karen
Kark: I took several class on how people have difficulties dealing with change and I assume that becoming disabled might be the same
Lonewolf: true
Lonewolf: anny
Kark: it was to do with business but i could relate
anny1: i see what ww means recently when i was faced with possibly losing some independence iwas scared and depressed
Lonewolf: me too anny
Lonewolf: bri
wacky: the scariest thing about a new dis.... is starting over all ur building blocks crumble
Lonewolf: beat
Lonewolf: France said no to the question
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Lonewolf: beat?
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Lonewolf: ali
Lily: u feel very alone and scared at first
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Lily: it takes time to adjust
Lonewolf: gis
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gismo3: the bigest question i had was ....why me
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Lonewolf: Yes I think why me is the hardest thing to overcome
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Lonewolf: anyone else before we move on?
WonderW-: when my
beat: Getting people to accept us the way we are is the biggest problem
Lonewolf: sorry-bri
wacky: mine was Why did I survive
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Lonewolf: oh yes beat
Lonewolf: bri?
Lonewolf: eve
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WonderW-: inability to walk happened, it was the result of trauma, one day I could, the next day I couldn't, was hard
wacky: yea judi
beat: not sure what you mean
eve: has anyone heard of elizabeth kubler ross?and her 5 stages
Lonewolf: yes
Lonewolf: applies here
eve: she deals with death and dying
gismo3: ? not i
Lonewolf: beat I'm sorry what about?
WonderW-: even just with a walker it was tough, though I could never walk without it
Lonewolf: Elizabeth Kubler Ross outlines the stages of death and dying
beat: !'
Lonewolf: These apply to the death or dying of a portion of your life also
Lonewolf: such as aquiring a disability
Lonewolf: max
Woz: ansewerd
Lonewolf: eve
eve: she sais you have to work through different stages of working through the problem. it's like working through your disablity too
Lonewolf: yes
Lonewolf: beat
anny1: ! i agree eve
beat: Don't you feel that accepent is a big probem
Lonewolf: yes it is
Lonewolf: brian
Lonewolf: cam
camille3: what is the topic please
wacky: Somethimes i feel as tho i have a foot in each world involed in both yet belong to niether
Lonewolf: born or acquired disability
Lily: Tonight's topic is : Born with it, or acquired it - pros and cons
Lonewolf: which is harder to accept
Lonewolf: eve
eve: some ppeople accept the disablity and others nevrer will
^^shaz^^: yep
Lonewolf: hazem'
hazem: Isn't it a bit drastic to compare disability with death?
Lonewolf: no not at all
Lonewolf: you go through the same emotional responses
Lonewolf: beat
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Lonewolf: bri
WonderW-: well, we're not trying to suggest they are synonomois, hazen, could be applied to general loss
wacky: hasem no because its like looking at to diff ppl the person i was before SCI doesnt exist I have a saying I am as I am, and I am still here
Lonewolf: eve
eve: in both cases you're suffering a loss. so there are points that are similar between becoming disabled and accepting one's death but they are not the ssame.
^^shaz^^: well said, wacky
wacky: and I play supermant theme every morning
Lily: lol
wacky: humor good med
Lonewolf: cam
camille3: i seen death death today and no comparsonto my disibality
Lonewolf: its the loss cam
WonderW-: :) glad to have been part of that, Brian
beat: if we are talking about dying then we must beleive rthat there is a god, or what the point
Lonewolf: loss og your former self
Lonewolf: no I don't think e are talking about dying
camille3: ! !
hazem: !
Lonewolf: cam
camille3: inever felt a loss like I did today
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Lonewolf: what from Cam
Lonewolf: hazem
hazem: I see, I don't have a former self, so I didn't understand. Got Polio when I was 9 months old.
Lonewolf: ok
camille3: I buried a close and dear friend and thats worst then loosing the bottom half of my body
anny1: ! denial, anger, depression,acceptance are 4 of the 5 stages of grief experienced with most losses
Lonewolf: yes cam I'm sorry for your loss
Lonewolf: have I missed anyone?
* wacky hugs cam
Lonewolf: 3. If you acquired your disabilities, was the psychological adjustment
Lonewolf: difficult? If so, what helped and what didn't?
* WonderW- does too
* Lonewolf does too
Lonewolf: bri
* Lily does too
camille3: thanks all
Lonewolf: cam
wacky: actually it was for me a relief I couldnt hide it any more so I stopped listening to my families vies that I had to live in their world
wacky: views
camille3: my familty helped a great deal
Lonewolf: so in your case it helped
WonderW-: good point
Lonewolf: the only acquired disability is the back injury that
Lonewolf: worsened my mobility. I really did not have a problem accepting it as
Lonewolf: I am still active, dance, sing karaoke and have my odd methods of
Lonewolf: pain management (remember the singing the loudest Alanis Morissette
Lonewolf: songs in karaoke and being active, dancing and having fun) Also I
Lonewolf: work as I always did, I teach college and go for my doctoral degree.
Lonewolf: I have been to France too.
Lonewolf: I'm sorry that was France's answer
Lonewolf: Karen
wacky: yup EMESLIY i could jst be bria and not brian hiding among ab's
Kark: hello
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Lonewolf: eve
eve: it was how others treated adam when he became disabled that was diffecult
Lonewolf: how so eve
Lonewolf: Karen
eve: they did not understand the disablity itself or how much effert it took to overcome it
Kark: yes lw?
Lonewolf: beat
Lonewolf: did you want to say something Karen?
Kark: Was having system problems, sorry
Kark: what question are we on
beat: I felt it was harder for me when my dis started getting worse.
Lonewolf: How we adjusted to acquiring a disability
Lonewolf: really beat?
wacky: !
Lonewolf: actually beat it is the same for me
Lonewolf: Ali
Lily: by helping other ppl, i started to feel like i had a purpose again
Lonewolf: bri
wacky: walking is overated all the years i walked to be like others i had no energy left now i just go and go and go like energizer bunny
Lonewolf: I go in stages but as I get worse it gets harder
WonderW-: I agree, there, Brian
Lonewolf: shaz
beat: yes when we can no lonnger do things we could do even with a dis. than it very hard
Lonewolf: shaz?
wacky: I gotta go spasms making it imposs ible to type fast
^^shaz^^: adjusting to dis, also depend on support from family, but it also depends on the strengths of one who has the dis. its hard.
Lonewolf: ok
Lily: ok
WonderW-: ok brian
Lonewolf: yes it is shaz
Lonewolf: 4. If you were born disabled, does it make you angry to think of your
Lonewolf: > limitations? or does the old adage that if you never had it you don't =
Lonewolf: > miss
^^shaz^^: ok, wacky.
Lonewolf: it apply?
WonderW-: I think both
Lonewolf: shaz
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^^shaz^^: absolute yes, but not in a sympathetic way. dont want it.
Lonewolf: eve
eve: yes you miss things but it all depends how you see disan;lity
Lonewolf: true
Lonewolf: cam
eve: as a tool or a problem
camille3: I think some things i had i wouldn't miss if I hadn't experence them
Lonewolf: anny
anny1: my recent problem is that i know i have fewer limitations than other seem to think i have, is frustrating
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Lonewolf: can see hwere it wud be
Lonewolf: laura
Lonewolf: ali
Lily: yes, agree cam, it a sense of loss, of knowing what you had, were
Lonewolf: laura did you have something?
WonderW-: I think I have both experiences, but mostly anger only when ppl want me to move oit of thr way
Lonewolf: beat
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Lonewolf: France:
Lonewolf: It is more if you never had it you do not miss it. I do not know any better. I do know know
Lonewolf: what it is like to have motor/spatial and perceptual skills and I
Lonewolf: have mild CP, severe NI, severe ataxia and perceptual problems. what
Lonewolf: frustrates me is the work limitations I have. I have a 148 IQ and yet
Lonewolf: I am so limited to the kind of work I can do because I function so
Lonewolf: poorly in all areas except for intellectual/academic ones. I have
Lonewolf: motor, spatial, mobility, movement, coordination, and judgment
Lonewolf: defic
Lonewolf: deficits necessary for all job functions. Therefore the only work I
Lonewolf: can do is college teaching and I am p/t because I am still going for
Lonewolf: my doctorate. need doctorate to tech f/t. I am frustrated at teh
Lonewolf: earning work and money making limits imposed by my disabilities
Lonewolf: ali
beat: Have we all found that as we got older our dis got worse?
Lily: do we have to read these long answers by france? thet so confusing
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Lonewolf: sorry
Lonewolf: mine will continue to get worse-anyone else
^^shaz^^: yes beat.
Lily: it ok, not yor fault
Lonewolf: anyone else?
Lonewolf: go on beat
Lonewolf: ok as we sum up-here is the last question
Lonewolf: 5. Which of the two are easier to cope with?
beat: When I was young every said you where lucky because you will never get worse
Lonewolf: over all
beat: sorry
Lonewolf: np beat I understand
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Lonewolf: I think acquired is harder
Lily: this is a meeting, mas
MASTAK101: hey
Lonewolf: for the reasons alison listed earlier
MASTAK101: oh...im sorry
MASTAK101: bye
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Lonewolf: 5. Which of the two are easier to cope with?
Lonewolf: being born with it, but I sure wish I could function better and thus
Lonewolf: earn more. France
Lonewolf: beat
WonderW-: acquired is esp harder if it is the result of abuse, because no one understands that well
Lonewolf: hazem
beat: the one your born with
hazem: In the short run, it is probably harder to acquire it, but in the long run, it evens out. Most of tthe pain I hear about being disabled
Lonewolf: ali
hazem: involves our treatment by society, and they don't diffentiate.
Lonewolf: you said a mouthful hazem!!
hazem: Sorry,
Lily: a friend of mine born with CP, says acquired harder
Lonewolf: no I meant that as good
Lonewolf: beat
Lonewolf: I close my eyes and see a different Judi-I look in the mirror and see someone I don't know
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MASTAK101: ok...im back
Lonewolf: anny go on
anny1: you really think ablebodied don't differentiate?
Lonewolf: between acquired and born?
anny1: yes
Lonewolf: no I don't
Lonewolf: do you?
MASTAK101: what are we takling aobut?
Lonewolf: acquired vs born with disabilities
Lonewolf: which is hardest
WonderW-: they do differentiate
Lonewolf: beat-you ready
Lonewolf: think so Laura?
beat: now we are really in new ball gAME BECAUSE people can't tell the driffent between disability
WonderW-: but maybe not as much as we in the disabled community do
WonderW-: yes
MASTAK101: acquired .... because if you are born with a disabilite.. you dont really know how easyer it could have been...b ut when you acquire one....you know how easy it once was...and how it may never be that easy again
anny1: yes i think i do becouse just seems like if you have been ablebodied at one time or another you have shared
WonderW-: absolutely
WonderW-: I've seen it
anny1: experiences with the ablebodied
MASTAK101: !ping
MASTAK101: im sorry i didnt know the ! rule...sorry for speaking out of turn
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Mooooooo: maybe everyone should be disabled for a week
^^shaz^^: yes, i agree with that.
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MASTAK101: margo?
Lily: i agree, mast
Lonewolf: sorry
Lonewolf: got bumped
Lonewolf: anyone els have anything?
Lonewolf: anny
anny1: lol moooooooo i volunteer
WonderW-: but we are just a guilty, if not more, we say others can't do what we can, label ppl negatively, etc
beat: Even within the disability we don't mix
MASTAK101: ! i know...but threre has to be a line drawn somewhere
WonderW-: right
Lonewolf: I still agree with beat
MASTAK101: you know?
Lonewolf: ali
Lily: agree, mast
Lonewolf: sometimes I even feel left out here
Lonewolf: beat
WonderW-: a line between what and what? it's fine to say someone can't, but not ok to judge becausesomeone else can
beat: if i walk down the road and past a quad they don't want to know me
Lonewolf: why beat?
Mooooooo: MASTAK, it may be a wise choice too
MASTAK101: am i wrong to think that?
Lonewolf: no
WonderW-: no
Lily: no
WonderW-: just stating
Lily: thats reality, mask
Lonewolf: well as much as e all want to say we are part of the able bodied community we are in our own category
Lonewolf: anny
anny1: i would choose the amputee surgeon over the blind, but that has to do with ability not acceptance
Lonewolf: true
Lonewolf: max
Woz: good meeting thanks judi and all
Lonewolf: yes max is right it is time to close
beat: but we all have the same thing That is a dis we may not like it but it is the same
Lonewolf: beat did you have something else
Woz: i did not say that
Lily: thx judi:))
Lonewolf: lol max
beat: no
* MASTAK101 asks when is the next meeting??????
Lonewolf: You are welcome to stay and talk if you like
Lily: im off, night all:)
Woz: just take it for what it is
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Lonewolf: next wed
MASTAK101: time??? around?
Mooooooo: every wednesday, 6 pacific